I went to Seventh Day Adventist schools and boarding schools during all my childhood and teen years. They teach a love for the Cathars big time. Our elementary school teachers made us read stories and color pictures of Waldensian and Albigensian children walking perilous mountain cliffs, hiding from the Inquisition on pain of death, carefully writing out copies of the Bible.
I left the Adventist church as a young adult because they don’t acknowledge the Divine Feminine, but I still have a friendly attitude toward some of their doctrine. I have been studying the Gnostic Cathars more in depth than usual lately and found some old notes I made last year. I realized the Adventists have a lot in common with the Cathars — who were called Waldensians and Albigensians in their day, only the Roman Catholic Church called them Cathars, originally a derogatory term meaning “purists” or “pure ones.”
Here is what I jotted down last year when I realized the uncanny similarity between the SDA’s and Cathars / Waldensians / Albigensians. The SDA founder, Ellen G. White, visited the Cathar / Waldensian valleys area in Europe (Italy and France border area) twice in 1885 to 1887 while she was in Europe. Chapter 4 of her famous book, The Great Controversy, is about these cool heretics. Adventists really really honor heretics!, good for them.
Similarites between Cathars & Adventists. Both Cathars and SDA’s practiced the following things:
Vegetarianism
Distrust of the Roman Catholic Church to the point of calling it and the Pope, Anti-christ & “the Beastâ€
Sabbath-keeping. See pic of SDA kids at Waldensian stone table room http://npucnewsletter.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/why-not-try-this-learn-lessons-from-the-waldenses/
Proof they were Sabbath keepers see: http://www.sabbathtruth.com/history/sabbath_history12.asp
Bible carrying
“Run to the hills!” teaching
Ascetisism: No adornments of any kind: no steeples, no stained-glass, no crosses, no rituals, no jewelry not even wedding rings. No christenings, no priests. These are all SDA no-no’s.
No swearing of oaths, no killing or soldiering (SDA’s are conscientious objectors in war-time)
* * * *
Adventists teach Waldensians and Albigensians are heretic heroes whom children should revere, study about, and use as role models. The word Cathar was originally an insult of the RCC, so true descendants of the Cathars actually call themselves Waldensians or Albigensians – just like the SDA’s who never used the word Cathars.
The fact that Adventists instill in their children from an early age love of (and affinity to) Cathars and love of Judaism (sabbath keeping) makes you wonder…
References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar
http://www.ellenwhite.org/gc1.htm
Lots of groups, evangelicals, especially Baptists, use the Waldensians aka Waldenses to provide themselves with pedigree stretching back to the Apostles. It’s called Baptist successionism. EG White has a chapter in GC about the Waldensians, but she doesn’t claim pedigree thru them, just that they kept the Sabbathkeeping torch alive thru the dark ages. They may not have even kept the Sabbath, but EG White’s limited research concluded they did. She probably read 17th century English author Sir Samuel Morland’s book about the Vaudois, another name for the Waldensians which said they kept the Sabbath.
Those who attempt to establish a pedigree for the Waldenses anterior to Waldo himself often refer to the work of Sir Samuel Morland, a 17th-century English author and diplomat who claimed to have found evidence that verifies the great antiquity of the sect. [4] Morland reproduced documents supposedly from the year 1120, which, he said, show that the Waldenses (French, -Vaudois-) had the scriptures for about forty years prior to the translation that Waldo obtained.
The documents in question, however, show the Bible divided into chapters, and such divisions did not appear before about 1250 or later. [5] The confession of faith produced by Morland makes it appear that the Waldenses held to a strongly Protestant-evangelical theology centuries before Luther. It is now known that this document originated in the 16th century. It contains teachings of Martin Bucer, reformer of Strasbourg, copied almost verbatim. [6]
Despite their usual aversion to Roman Catholic sources, successionists have not hesitated to cite a remark by Reinerius Saccho that the Waldenses movement is ancient,
“for some SAY that it has existed from the time of Sylvester, some from the time of the apostles.” http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num3.htm
hello dear saint
are you a sabbath keeper or sundaykeeper
Hi! I did a research and found out that the Waldensians were sabbath keepers but after the persecution after their freedom they keep Sunday from that on.
There is no historical background showing the Waldensians as Sabbath keepers but EGW esoteric visions are often taken as a historical proof. Infact, there are letters from Waldensians congregations where they admit themselves not being Sabbath Keepers.
Actually, there is an abundance of proof in the historical record. Wikipedia says:
Waldensians were divided by three types of activity: Sandaliati, who received sacred orders and were to prove the heresiarchs wrong; Doctores, who instructed and trained missionaries; and Novellani, who preached to the general population.[6] They were also called Insabbatati, Sabati, Inzabbatati for keeping the Sabbath and/or rejecting all religious festivals.[7]
[7] Edwardson, Christian (2001). Facts of Faith, p. 125. TEACH Services, ISBN 9781572581937
A lot of ex-Adventists get on a kick trying to “debunk” many of Ellen White’s writings, especially her major work, The Great Controversy. Similarly ex-Mormons debunk Joseph Smith. Of course E.G. White is not infallible, and might have made numerous errors in her many writings, but the Waldensians being sabbath-keepers is not one of them. The historical record and descendants of the original Waldensian churches alive today confirm they were called Sabati, etc. because they were sabbath-keepers. Here’s the entire Wikipedia article “Waldensians“; it’s quite interesting.
Sincerely,
+Katia
Actually there isn’t strong evidence that any Waldensians were Sabbath keeping. Wikipedia is useful, but is hardly a bullet proof source.
I’m actually interested in the similarities between Gnosticism and Puritanical religions like SDAs, Mormons, Calvinism, Islam. It’s very interesting that you see many similarities between ancient esoteric religion and many Protestant groups. I am an SDA. I’m truly alarmed that much of Protestantism has picked up the Gnostic teachings that the early Church repudiated. It’s very interesting.
There is a complete lack of beauty within many Puritanical religions like SDA. I mean not wearing any jewellery, even wedding rings!? This devalues God’s material world, it is very Gnostic. God likes stuff. He made it. And he wants to redeem it. This ideology that says we must disavow anything material, any material pleasures whatsoever is perilously close to outright Gnosticism.
Hello there, I have read your comments and admire your passion. I too have travelled a winding path , let me say the Gnostic path to me is the true one, I say this not from knowledge but experience. My mother was a true Protestant in that she truly believed as I do that all Popes are ‘anti-Christ, ‘Vicar of Christ’ as the Pope calls himself means ‘ in place of Christ’ The foreword to The King James Bible calls the Pope ‘That Man Of Sin’
Also, reading The Revelation of St John it is obvious ‘ the seven Hills ‘ refer to Rome. And ” the spirit of iniquity is already at work ” the Nicolaitans aka The Roman Church with their phases if ” priest craft “. I have experienced the Gnosis and can tell beyond doubt – at least to me – that Christ is the inner core of man. In the Gnostic faith Sophia – the feminine principle- is his consort – bride . For me I have proven beyond doubt that the anti -Christ is the Pope ” he who stands in place of God calling himself the most high. This is Protestant tradition from The Gnostics to Martin Luther to Ian Paisley . And why don’t the Popes wear the triple Tiara anymore ? The inscription that translates frim latin into ” 666″ ? Baffling ! They know their true place in the last days, But I truly respect your view and cherish the difference that diversity and evolution brings to the human race . Yours Sincerely. Michael Vallance.
The whe Sabbath question is a “blindside” it is a non- question. Christ denounced “works” and the Law of The Jews. Corinthians said it best ” love is the greatest thing , if I have all the knowledge in the World Nothing is greater than Love” ” it is the number of A MAN ‘ the beast is Rome, the “image of the beast ox The Roman Church ” so obvious I can’t believe no-one knows this ? I guess It isn’t meant to be obvious ? ” dressed in Scarlett and purple ” and people STILL don’t see this ? SDA is not a Cult. Rome is the Cult par excellence !
Hello again my friends, just a few more words about my expiences with SDA. Many years ago I was enthralled by the similarity between SDA ideas and early Protestant movements -especially Luther. They were reavealing things to me that made utter sense, I took a few lessons with the paster of a local SDA Church, there was no pressure just warmth and a kindherated spirit. The two things I could never accept though were , Sabbath keeping aka Saturday worship and vegetarianism. None of this seemed to matter to this gracious Pastor, I told him I drank alcohol and didn’t believe sabbath keeping was a big deal, I ate meat every day, he didn’t worry about this he accepted me as a friend in Christ ! Being a true Protestant though I find the words in Revelation regarding the Beast , anti-christ etc DO relate to The Pope and The Roman Catholic Church. having said all that I have many dear friends that are Catholic and I believed they are saved, I believe as Ian Pailey does that EVERY Pope has been the anti-Christ, ‘That man of Sin’ as the forward to the King James Bible calls him. I thank You Katia for deeming my words of value to be put up on your site. Peace Always.
Oh, and just to finish, the grascious Pastor and I eventually parted ways after about six months. he encouraged me to look into The Lutheran Church or to just keep attending The Church Of England which I was Christened into. This is why I would never ever regard SDA as some sort of Cult, they are not – deluded in some ways – but I felt it was God’s way of returning me to Christ, to encounter this man was truly meant to be. I now call myself a Gnostic Protestant, attend The Church Of England services when I can. The Kingdom of Heaven is within as Christ said and …’Ye are Gods’ Whether some future Pope will turn out to be the ultimate anti-christ and cause armageddon I don’t know, the World may just go along without the conflaguration described in Revelation, I think its message though is to ‘come out of Babylon’ i.e. remove oneself from False teachings. One just has to read the History of The Roman Church to know – without doubt – That SHE is the Harlot ‘arrayed in scarlett and purple, with diamonds, pearls and gold…abiding in the City of Seven Hills’… maybe armageddon has been going on since St Johns time ? and will go on forever until each of us dies – that will be our individual ‘End Of Time’. Once again thankyou Katia. Much Love . Michael.
An amazing link, so much here that cannot be denied. Peace To All. http://www.bebaptized.org/popeantichrist.htm
Hi again, just wondering what people’s thoughts are on movies about Christs life ? I didn’t think Passion Of The Christ was that good, it could have been much greater. What about ‘The Last Temptation of Christ’ a MUCH better movie that revealed a deeper compassion – even though most Church officials hated it. Many Gnostic elements there, Mary Magdelane for example playing a much bigger role as was probably the actual case in reality. As a Gnostic I believe there is evidence Jesus and Mary Magdelane were husband and wife, it would have been unheard of in those days for a grown man not ot be married. The treasure trove of texts found at Nag Hammadi in 1945 seem to back this up. Love to you. Michael.
The Jewish calculation calendar of Hillel II (The Nasi) puts not only the weekly Sabbath on the wrong day but also the annual Sabbaths. God’s month has only 30 days Gen 7:11, 8:4, 7:24, 8:3;
150 days/ 5 months = 30 days/month). God’s year has only 12 months (Rev 22:2). The Book of Enoch reveals God’s calendar and fits with Dt 16:1 (“Observe the RENEWAL of Abib” at the equilux day which resets the calendar for the coming year and establishes all Sabbaths.) Day starts at sunup
No matter what you say will not change the fact that the Saturday Sabbath is ancient and still belongs to God and you and me are suppose to worship the creator on his day and be very careful of what you say cos God will bring every act into judgement
The 7th day Shabbat is one of the main principles of the Most High, which is His Rhythm … ie: 7 angels, 7 churches, 7 thunders, 7 spirits, 7th day …
By keeping Shabbat, it is a very easy way of ‘keeping in the Rhythm of God’ and honoring Him. Yahshua was Lord of the Shabbat, which does not mean He did not keep it, He just went deeper into explaining that it was a blessing and it was lawful to ‘do good’ on Shabbat.
According to records, E.G. White plaguerized much of the writings of her day. There is a significant amount of material that she wrote that is absurd and that she changed or was relegated to the background, ie: the 1844 closed door beliefs, organs in the brain, that when over-heated caused husbands to become ‘overly amorous’ to their wives, whose heads needed to be ‘cooled’ etc…
The SDA’s are actually quite good people, that try to follow the bible as closely as possible. Not all follow E.G. White, nor are they anything like the ‘cathars’, who had some very absurd and biblically contradictory beliefs. They were more like the ‘Waldensis’ who were a great deal different to the ‘cathars’ aka ‘albigensis’ historical records show.
I know many ex-SDA’s have a chip on their shoulder, and a number want to present as much negative material as they can on the SDA church, however one needs to look at facts and information as it truly is.
One also needs to discern between true and false gnostics, that actually leads away from the Source – of Eternal Good & Light. From what I have seen and experienced over a considerable period of time, here are the deeper truths and Truth that are esoteric and true knowing or knowledge (gnostic), that leads to and is deeper understanding of God, and then there is the typical paganised lie called ‘gnosticism’ dressed up as alleged ‘secret knowledge’ which ends up cultivating a spirit of diversion and rebellion to the Most High … leading to regarding deceiving spirits as some kind of ‘dieties’
I personally don’t believe in any ‘dieties’ save that which is in His Image, we are as ‘gods’ when that is the case, but as His children – part of His Greater Will and showing a spirit of humility before Him and obedience … unfallen angels are also ‘morning stars’ and Sons of the Most High – we should strive to be like them – like Yahshua the Character/logos of the Most High personified in form – those that seek the Truth and knowing of it, through Him Yahshua (YHVH saves) – ‘The – Morning Star … dawning within us …
I find all this rather strange for me I have no doubt the Waldenses were Sabbath keepers as I have studied extensively and just recently my family dna results revealed Jewish origins and I am a Waldensian. This new revelation concerning the Jewish connection from my family dna is Gods truth. The ancient Waldenses always claimed their decendancy from 1st century Jewish Christians and I have provan it. People should follow the actual words of Jesus Christ instead of man made traditions ” to enter into life keep the commandments ” and from the book of Revelations ” here is the patience of the saints, here are those who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus ”
Jesus also said, be not one who argues about bloodlines!